Turns out forcesidesvisible fixes (or at least makes almost unnoticeable) the stuck in RA room issue


When I made a new botfile for q3dm7 using forcesidesvisible, it actually fixes (or made almost unnoticeable) the stuck in RA room issue. Although in it, they take the jump pad to the shotgun multiple times. Otherwise, they’re fine. https://github.com/zturtleman/spearmint/issues/260 happens to have a link to it, so if you wanna test that, go ahead.


It is widely and well known that AAS files compiled with the -forcesidesvisible switch will produce different paths bots will walk around, in some cases more areas will be used more likely, whereas other areas are not used so likely by bots.
Bear in mind, intentiaonally -forcesidesvisible was a special HACK during the compiling process.
Compiling all maps with -forcesidesvisible, even maps without bugs, or simply using -forcesidesvisible by default is not really a good idea.
Besides of the longer compile time, it can also increase CPU usage a lot (I talk about in game, not during the compiling process). Though, both disadvantages probably are no longer so important, nowadays.
Nevertheless, -forcesidesvisible is a HACK!, you shouldn’t use it. Only use it if you can’t fix the map (brushwork), or you used the -meta switch during map to bsp compile. In this case you have to use -forcesidesvisible.


If you really interested in AAS creation, I highly recommend Cardigans AI tutorial! Unfortunately I can’t find his original site/tutorials. There is some equivalent here: AI misbehaving
Cardigan, damned, how time goes by! :pensive:


I’ve found that that command, hack or not, actually helps with some of the reachability on certain maps & allows them to go to places they normally wouldn’t without it @KuehnhammerTobias. For example, when I did dc_map08 (Dark Chapel) & dc_map11 (The Camping Grounds), it helped the bots in exploring quite a bit of the levels. dc_map11 had the bots grab the YA section (RA in regular q3dm6), while Dark Chapel had the bots going into the LG area from both sides, not just one, to grab the RL from the armor shard/5 health sections. They also grabbed the RA in Dark Chapel with this experimentation (only achievable by jump pad).


Yeah! Since you are not allowed to tweak the bsp/map file from dc_map packs, using -forcesidesvisible may improve the bots roaming behaviour on some maps. Nevertheless, -forcesidesvisible can cause other areas to become problematic. Best thing is to try it, per map, invite some friends, start some LAN matches against/with bots, and see if the map plays well with bots.
Additionally bear in mind that some players are also used to a specific bot behaviour/tactics for each map. Some players will not automatically see it as an improvement if bots go for different areas that the bots didn’t use in the past (although for the dc map this won’t be a problem).
Sidenote: Of course you will know this, but only for clarification, you must use the same bot(s) for comparison the bots paths, since different bots have different preferences.
As already said, I’m not an expert about the licensing about recompiled AAS files, but at least be careful when tweaking/reworking existing maps you aren’t the author of, though I haven’t looked into that as far as dc maps are concerned.


It’s more of an experimentation run than anything else. I’m using this to finish up my new version of the dc-mappack. I think you ran into a prototype build of the mappack (pretty much final, the botfiles are the only thing keeping them from being final, which are being tested/included as soon as I see improvement). There are some tricky ones, though, like dc_map13. I’m now working on the botfiles for the ss maps, currently on the 20x ss maps. Afterwards, I’ll get started on the 40x maps.


The only things which you could modify are the ones in the Radiant pack (q3dm1/q3dm7/q3dm17) & that’s about it, unless the author of a custom map either gives permission or releases the original map file under some sort of non-restrictive license, like the deprecated LvL OGSL, or the GNU GPL.


Ahh! And do you have any ‘long term goal’:grinning: I mean, will you release a map pack of maps created by your own, or do you have any other plans with Spearmint/mint-arena?


This will be a brand new version of the original dc-mappack from 2000, which will include ALL the DC maps, brand new & mainly better botfiles, new levelshots for the maps without any real levelshots (the picture-in-picture ones, the dc_map01/dc_ss maps), & when I figure out the track order, it will even have the music for all the maps. Are you drooling yet, @KuehnhammerTobias?


:yum: Of course! Due some mental influence caused by Q3 I got brain freeze and got stuck in 2000. So, yeah…


About the music/track order, I assume you already know zturtlemans ‘music-playlist_stream-queue’ branch for mint-arena?
Probably this branch will help you? Though I’m not sure if this is what you are looking for!


I’m trying to figure out which of the tracks is used for which map (I already have track07.wav figured out, it’s used for dc_map01 (& probably a few others), although it isn’t in the version of the mappack in the blue-green glass issue for that particular map for some unearthly reason).


You mean what track is played on which map?

Solution 1. You can have a look at the worldspawn key of the map (bsp), e.g:

“ambient” “10"
”_color" "1.000000 0.913725 0.800000"
“music” "music/track09"
“classname” “worldspawn”
“message” “The Campgrounds”

(I know you are an Notepad enthusiast, so it will be easy for you to figure out how to open the bsp file :wink:)

Solution 2: iirc there is also a console command to play all the music files.


Yep. It’s /music dir/musicfileyouwanttoplay.wav. And I actually mean which track in the DC tracks go with which map. dc_map01 takes track07, and uses track10 in the real DC version. And I think the music file has to be stereo and 22050hz in order to play correctly with Q3. track07 is mono and 44100hz, so all I had to do was:

  1. Create a dual mono track using track10 as base.
  2. Set project rate in Audacity to 22050hz.
  3. Normalize the volume by quieting it 50%.
  4. Export to lossless stereo 22050hz WAV.
    The only way to figure that out is possibly to just go play the DC version for a bit and see what tracks play on which levels. Nothing better than using the real DC version to figure out which tracks should go where @KuehnhammerTobias.
    EDIT: Using cdirip results in full stereo for all of the tracks, thus this stuff is invalid (& it also automatically cuts out the silence from all the tracks too).


Without warranty:

dc_map02: music/track09
dc_map03: music/track05
dc_map04: music/track04
dc_map05: music/track11
dc_map06: music/track03
dc_map07: music/track06
dc_map08: music/track05
dc_map09: music/track08
dc_map10: music/track02
dc_map11: music/track09
dc_map12: music/track11
dc_map13: music/track05
dc_map14: music/track12
dc_map15: music/track06
dc_map16: music/track02
dc_map17: music/track03
dc_map18: music/track13
dc_map19: music/track14
dc_map20: music/track08
dc_map21: music/track02
dc_map22: music/track14
dc_map23: music/track05
dc_map24: music/track07


Eventually a new topic? Concerning music format? :thumbsup:


track10 is the track being played for dc_map01 in the real DC version. I’ll have to use it for track07 in the DC mappack then. EDIT: Actually, that doesn’t make any sense, as the tracks can be changed out with the game’s built in track changer, although it does tell you what track it is. Mine defaulted to Track 7.


I’m figuring them out as I go, using the track changer in DC Q3A to help me out… Eventually I’ll let you test & see if the tracks I’ve got match with the ones played in the real DC Q3A, @KuehnhammerTobias
I’ll even convert the “Warning! This disc is for use only on Sega Dreamcast!” track as a bonus.
EDIT: I’m already done, I used cdirip for most of the tracks. The silence at the end of the tracks are already cut off because of it. The bonus track, track00, I should probably cut the silence off for as well. EDIT2: It’s all cut off (I should get a job as an audio editor, don’t you think, @KuehnhammerTobias?)


I’ve just wrapped up testing on my version of the DC mappack. Here’s the link for anyone interested:
v2.0: https://mega.nz/#!h8czkYxJ!RXmk_i8wPTf4Ws9mHXgtfLl0omHk0aGhhxcMghRMB7A
v2.1: https://mega.nz/#!V48WgSpb!Gxd4z7rfqD7pQkQE6FlB2qgixBxdaDKFsArqo36pUv0
v2.11: https://mega.nz/#!o41GWKbD!vA5LZ0orXBTCyCMo4t5V9Q8sC-alT3sphrYCrGxAbWY
Enjoy, because you just might love it over the original Sega mappack. In v2.0, shaders have been fixed/added, duplicate textures from ss_maps.pk3 have been deleted, new botfiles have been created to make botplay better, and one new shader has been added (supportctfred_rept). To view it, go to dc_map24, & proceed to the red base. The textures on the walls should now shine in the way the blue base has on some of it’s wall textures.


Well, I didn’t test your work excessively, but botplay seems okay. So using -forcesidesvisible works for those maps. I can’t say anything about the shader stuff, since I’m no DC expert. What I still think would be fine, is a ‘changelog’ file or something, that lists all your changes, or write some blog, about the status of your current work. Though, thats just a suggestion.
:thumbsup: Anyways, you did a great job! I hope we will see more from you! :thumbsup:
I thought you will create your own music files replacements, you have to remove them I think!